Jumblat Says Won't Pull Out Helou even if Hariri Agrees with Aounإقرأ هذا الخبر بالعربية
Progressive Socialist Party leader MP Walid Jumblat has stressed that he will not pull out MP Henri Helou of the presidential race even if an agreement was reached between al-Mustaqbal movement leader MP Saad Hariri and Free Patriotic Movement chief MP Michel Aoun.
“I'm not one of those who wait for external factors. I won't pull out Henri Helou even if Hariri reaches an agreement with Aoun,” Jumblat said in an interview with The Associated Press.
Helou had garnered 16 votes during the first electoral session that was held on April 23 while 48 votes were given to Lebanese Forces leader Samir Geagea. The country was plunged into a presidential vacuum on May 25 after a boycott of voting sessions by most of the March 8 forces prevented the election of a successor to former president Michel Suleiman.
“We in the Democratic Gathering bloc will not accept a settlement at the expense of Henri Helou … We will cast our votes and we either win or lose,” Jumblat added.
“We do realize that the external factor is essential, but if we keep awaiting the so-called Iranian-Saudi dialogue or the Iranian-American settlement, the issue might take a long time,” Jumblat said.
Separately, the PSP leader said the decision by Hizbullah to join the civil war in neighboring Syria and fight along President Bashar Assad's forces was a historic and moral "mistake" toward the Syrian people.
The harsh criticism by Jumblat, who leads Lebanon's minority Druze sect, reflects his increasing pessimism about the bloody conflict next door, now in its fourth year.
Although he leads a minority sect, the MP is a pillar and a mainstay in Lebanese politics and is often referred to as the country's "kingmaker" because of his small bloc's track record of tipping the balance during key votes in parliament.
"Hizbullah intervened in Syria and did not care about the Lebanese (public) opinion," Jumblat told the AP during a recent interview at his home in Beirut. "This is a historical and moral mistake toward the Syrian people."
Hizbullah's fighters openly entered the fight in Syria in May 2013 and were instrumental in helping Assad's troops push back rebels and re-capture strategic towns and rebel strongholds along the border with Lebanon and near Syria's capital, Damascus.
This turned the tide in the conflict, giving Assad's forces the upper hand against the rebels seeking to overthrow the Syrian leader, who last week won a third seven-year term in a presidential election derided as a farce by the opposition.
Now, the Syrian civil war will be "very long," Jumblat said. Instead of fighting in Syria, he said Hizbullah should have focused on archenemy Israel.
"I say that the guns should be directed toward the Israeli enemy," he added.
Jumblat — whose Druze are like Assad's Alawites, an offshoot of Shiite Islam — has been known for his shifting loyalties. His history with Hizbullah has been both complex and full of U-turns.
After the 2005 assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, Jumblat sharply criticized Hizbullah and the Syrian government, which many in Lebanon blamed for the killing. Damascus denies it was behind Hariri's slaying.
In May 2008, tensions between Jumblat's followers and allies on one side and Hizbullah on the other erupted into street fighting in Beirut and nearby mountains, killing 81 people and nearly plunging Lebanon into another civil war.
In 2009, Jumblat reconciled with the Hizbullah leader, Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, who the following year personally mediated a meeting between the Druze politician and Assad. That meeting was a sharp turn for Jumblat, who only three years earlier had called the Syrian president a "snake" and a "tyrant."
Then, after his last visit to Damascus in June 2011, Jumblat again broke with Assad.
"We are still at the beginning of the war in Syria. In the long term, the map of the Middle East will be redrawn," he told the AP.
"The main winner is the Islamic Republic," he said referring to Iran, which is one of Assad's strongest allies.
The Syrian conflict, which has so far killed more than 160,000 people, a third of whom were civilians, has sharply divided the Lebanese, and violence has often spilled into the tiny Arab country, killing and wounding hundreds here.
Many Lebanese Shiites back Assad, while Lebanon's Sunnis back the mostly Sunni rebels fighting to overthrow him. Jumblat has repeatedly urged his countrymen not to get involved in the Syrian conflict.
But from the topic of war, the Druze politician is quick to turn to lighter subjects when prompted.
Asked about actor George Clooney's engagement to 36-year-old Lebanese-British international law attorney Amal Alamuddin — who like Jumblat happens to be a Druze — he smiled and said he hoped the couple would soon visit the Druze heartland.
Jumblat said he would be happy to welcome Clooney in his palatial mansion in the Druze village of Moukhtara, high in the mountains over Beirut.
Clooney will bring us "great publicity," Jumblat said. "He can make a movie about the Druze sect."
We either need to rethink our political system or divide the country into many parts.
Jumblatt is definitely in the the secular part of Lebanon. We go back to Jabal Loubnan with Beirut as its capital.
The Islamic Republic of South Lebanon will include the South, Baalbek and Hermel and Dahieh as its capital, (Saida will have to vote on which new entity to join). Their moto will be: We will resist until the Mehdi comes.
And Lebanon, the secular country. The great country where a great majority of people are hard working taxpayers. Our moto will be: we willed peace and then we astonished the world.
Interesting concept. The islamic republic of south Lebanon will then try to liberate mixed areas..such as in Jbeil....
No need really. We can always let people living inside secular Lebanon to have dual citizenships.
no need to "liberate". Jbeil is majority pragmatic people who want to live in secular lebanon.
While the "jihadist" lebanon would have, in exchange for jbeil, for example Marjeyoun who has a sizeable minority of pragmatic people and a majority of jihadists.
No that is racist really. And secular Lebanon is a liberal country and not an Islamo-fascist takfiri one.
We understand that most of the inhabitants of the land of Lebanon were originally refugees fleeing perscution accross the ages.
And the all have the right to live under a government that they aspire to live under.
There would be no greater joy to a great section of the current Lebanese population to live in the Islamic Republic of South Lebanon, Baalbek and Hermel.
They would live happy under Sharia law and resist until the end of times.
Others (including Lebanese from all sects) would rather live in secular country.
To each their own. No need for violence. Everyone is happy.
Scotland is voting for this. Sudan did it. Iraq did it the federal way. No one is unhappy really.
I share your opinion, but the only problem is that secular peace-lovers are not good fighters when it comes to defend physically their country and being killed for the sake of liberty to their fellow citizens.
No need for violence. At the end of the day there a lot of benefits to everyone.
Today nobody is happy with the current system. Furthermore, a lot of Lebanese want to live under Sharia law and want to live a life of resistance. All I am saying is that under the Islamic Republic of South Lebanon, Baalbek and Hermel, they would have the chance to do that.
Secular Lebanon has different ambitions. No need to have "Hanoi and Hong Kong"(borrowed from Walid Jumblatt) under the same roof or in this case Dahie and Beirut.
And no need for forced population transfer. People can have a double nationality and at the end of the day it would be their choice to decide where to live.
Practically the way to do it is to delineate where the borders are and then give every current Lebanese a dual nationality. After 5 to 10 years, he will have to give up one of them.
But that does not mean that once he gives up one nationality he has to stop residing in secular Lebanon (I can only give the secular Lebanon perspective here). On the contrary he can own land like any foreigner and have a long term residency.
Like this every Lebanese will have determined his status.
This is the basic principle of self-determination.
Correction: "he or she will have to give up one of them."
Same concept of freedom to choose here. The Palestinian refugees who want to bear arms and resist can choose the Islamic Republic of South Lebanon, Baalbek and Hermel. Those who want to live as they do in Jordan can choose Secular Lebanon as their refuge.
Ultimately their predicament will be to get a Palestinian passport and either get a residency visa in Secular Lebanon, emigrate or go back and live in their own country, Palestine.
As for the other parties that you mentioned, well they all had enough of war (1948-present), civil wars (1958 and 1975-1990) and cold civil wars (1990-present).
In fact they have proven their will to live peacefully.
As for the citizens in the North that you mention, well I think that a lot of them would rather live in a secular Lebanon. If they don't they can vote to have their own Islamic Republic of North Lebanon.
Same concept applies to say the citizen of Zogharta, they can choose to be part of greater Assad-Syria or have their own Frangieh Republic.
The concept here is pure freedom so that everyone is happy and feels at home.
Your concept is very interesting.
People from "secular Lebanon" would be able to search for their happiness by achieving security and economic prosperity,
while the people from the other regions would be able to search for happiness by doing their Jihad, by working to liberate syria from takfiris, Israel from zionists, and whatever else their government (HA) chooses.
The only problem is that HA won't accept. He wants to stay with us to keep on sucking our blood...
They will not need to anymore once they have their own state. It will be much more lucrative. Moreover, they will have gas reserves, (like every newly created state in the land of Lebanon), that they can exploit and spend on their resistance lifestyle, (weapons, car bombs, drones, underground tunnels, bunkers, shaheed this an shaheed that center, hospital, petrol station, etc.)
True. They can florish.
They can introduce faculties in their universities for Car bombing. (Start with car bomb 101 courses "the chemistry of explosions", up to graduate courses on "how to indoctrinate discheveled young men")
They can open an excellence center for resistance, and export resistance material and services all over the world. Market is great(chiapas in mexico, East Timor, Northern Ireland, Corsica)
Interesting concept. What would happen to the majority Christian villages of the south? Jezzine and mieh mieh? If they wanted to live in "secular Lebanon" but have dual nationality. Would that mean that their villages would be under sharia law if that's what the Islamic Republic of South Lebanon had to abide by?
Spain has been a country for centuries before franco, mainly catholics... Cant compare with Lebanon...
who needs a duce or a caudillo when u can have NasrIran as supreme leader ?
The day Aoun the clown is president, and shares power with Hariri, is the day when all the Christians of M14 pull out immediately of this coalition and have no business with either men. Mr. Saad Hariri should know who killed his father, who mocked him, who trashed the investigations, and how much sacrifices everyone has put up at M14 for the sake of keeping this country sane. If Saad is about to join the devil rather than fight him, then let him go it alone. He won't make past a month. And you Mr. Jumblatt, don't pretend that your hypocrisy has contributed a lot why we couldn't elect a new president, so shut up will you?
Mr Jumb you make a disservice for yourself by hopping between camps and shifting your spurious loyalties from one side to the other, thinking that you are smart and shrewd. In sooth, you make a fool of yourself and make others think of you as silly, untrustworthy, a puerile whippersnapper and a paltry social climber. As a consequence thereof, you are now despised by the nation and left maundering in the political arena without any credible ally.
the gun toward the israeli enemy ....ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!what a clown walid ! always a good laugh wth him !!! ha ha ha ha ha ah
Unfortunately I think the only way the lebanese will be truly happy is if Lebanon is partitioned along sectarian lines. A federal state. A state for the Christians, one for the Sunnis, one for the Shia/alawites. One for the Druze? Or Who will the Druze live with?
rest assured we will not leave, rather we will fight the extremist terrorist Iranian militia to the last drop of blood, and will regain our country.
hey thingie did not ask for your stupid BS as usual... people like you destroyed Lebanon... so eff... your stinking mouth up, ok monkey?
The federal system does not mean different countries, not that I agree with it. Having said that, as peace mentioned above, Lebanon has definitely ceased to exist, not because of the developments but because it never was. Our trial as a country lasted about 30 years after the French left us. What is happening now is the process of a birth of a country, and the only people with a clear vision for that are HA, and that's why they are so powerful. Lebanon as an entity can only exists as a secular country, there are no logical arguments to counter this fact, no matter what anyone says. HA would never agree or allow that, I mean why would they if it doesn't suit them and they are the most powerful on the ground. Therefore we have to understand that any other party than HA has no power whatsoever, unless EVERYONE else is United. HA will push Lebanon and its chance for existence to the limit, until they either win or lose Iranian guardianship somehow and cease to exist.
No need for violence or the threat of violence to get there. Agree Hezbollah is the most powerful military force on the ground and we don't want to upset them. We want them to be happy and do what they do best without worrying that they have "traitors and zionists" in their midst. What do they want with jounieh (bars and prostitutes), Achrafieh (they all drink and speak French), Beirut (full of free thinkers and seculars), chouf, alay (full of trees and gulf tourists), Etc. No value added for them only down side.
machia, ur project of mount lebanon republic wont work, mainly coz of dahieh and division among christians.
Chouf Druze wont probably agree as well. So partition is just christian wishful thinking.
Political maronitism is dead, hail wilayat al fakir...
cedre. Why are you attacking Machia by calling his project political maronitism? He was clear that his vision is about a secular lebanon where sunnis, druzes and christians are together.
As for division amongst christians, the aounis are with HA tactically. only because HA is the strongest and because they get chiite votes. They have absolutely no adherance to their program.
Like even berri is with HA because they are the strongest (after they were squashed).
lebfirst, nobody's attacking machia or political maronitism.
Political maronitism is not his project, it's an old project among the christian elite. Also, it's not a religious project, and it's not even exclusively maronite. Political maronitism built many of our institutions, our universities and hospitals, which served all lebanese. Of course it had his downsides. But it's dead now, since 2008 coup, Lebanon was taken over by the iranian militia, that wont accept confederalism or partition. It stated it clearly, so Machia's mount lebanon republic wont happen, its just wishful thinking.
Listen to every word and think about it :
I know that Machia's project won't work. It is utopia. We are ruled by the party of iran. And nothing short of a civil war will rid us of this hegemony.
And mind you, a civil war is so horrendous. So freaking horrible, that I prefer to live under the party of Iran's rule than to see Lebanon engulfed in a new war, hoping that regional circumstances, on the long term remove the grip of HA's hold of lebanon.
And that especially that HA is indeed showing some restraint on the internal scene, and is not the devil it could be, given its military superiority.
Nothing is impossible. It just needs proper implementation. The important thing is that people from all sects would agree on a peaceful, secure, secular, democratic and prosperous country.
It is very obvious that a large section of the Lebanese population wants an Islamic State and that is fine, they can have it. But the rest of the Lebanese want to live under a functioning, peaceful and prosperous liberal democracy where the rule of law is upheld.
We don't need megalomaniac dictators to govern the present territory of Lebanon.
Fascism is out of sync with the 21st century and will only cause poverty. Moreover, if the dictator is from one sect, than the other sects will oppose him.
And although they were murderous dictators, Pinochet, Franco, Mussolini or Stalin didn't appoint their sons in law as foreign ministers and heir apparent. Only degenerate Arab and North Koreans did.
machia, i prefered u when u were pragmatic, realpotitik, Machiavellian. All maronites won't even accept this project, so lets not talk about the others sects.
What we have and will have in foreseeable future is society where HizbIran dictated to our politicians and army what to do. Otherwise vacuum and bombings...
They got demographics, weapons, regional support (from Syria and Iran) and international blanc-seing from ME Christians false friends like US, UK and France...
Being pragmatic has led us to the situation we are in today. The government is not functioning, an Islamo fascist militia is in control of the state, poverty, sectarianism at its peak (listening to our politicians there are no more Lebanese in Lebanon today but Sunni, Druzes, Shias, Maronites, Orthodox, Armenians, etc.), a constant state of cold civil war and war (against Israel, against the takfiri factions of Syria, against the Islamic Republic of Iran, against the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, against one another, etc.).
We are all against something but not for anything. No plan.
Well this is my utopia, my dream where I think every current citizen of Lebanon can bloom or boooooom.
Tactically I agree with you today. But in the long term they have their Islamic Republic in mind and that is not wrong. At least they have a plan.
What is ours?
Partition is the only plan that works and believe me when we finally divorce, we will have much better relations.
Your little fantasy you have going on will never work especially because lebanon is too small to federalize and second the problems that will arise from dividing the land will be more then the current situation right now. Also any division will lead to hezballah taking the majority of land desired for them since they have the military force and in addition to around 52 or more percent of the lebanese population (Shia). Also this requires this civil wars and world powers to divide it up which will never happen because hezballah will not let anyone play with its future and present
Finally, the will of the people will prevail. If enough people believe in this plan, no car bombs or lethal force can stop them. Utopia, maybe, but it is a vision that many of us in Lebanon believe in and at the end of the day, it will naturally prevail because nothing else works.
We do not want to force any current citizen of Lebanon to live under a secular liberal democracy vice versa, the proponents of an Islamic state cannot force the secular Lebanese to live a life of resistance under Sharia.
Partition is a win win and it should not be taboo to discuss it.
Why should they take part of Lebanon if they can control all of it ?
Partition is no tabou, just wishful thinking.
Christian represents 2/3 of mount lebanon, in one generation maybe 1/2...
Hehehe, indeed you are right. I tasted the other side when I had you the other day.
Machia 3 hours ago 34
" If there are no more Hamas, Hezbollah or Islamic Jihad, there is no more Syrian foreign policy because it is the main component in the diplomacy of Damascus. The Lebanese are the first victims of Syrian terrorism. Hezbollah said that there was no more Israeli civil society, because it is a militarized society, thereby justifying attacks against Israeli civilians. Israelis protesting for peace have become victims of the attacks and have lost their way for several years. Palestinians should have continued to throw stones. Because of the attacks, they have lost the support of a part of international opinion. Terrorism has also provided a justification for the policy of destruction carried out by the Israeli army against the Palestinians.
flamethrower-- 2 hours ago 31
tout a fait, machia. le djihad islamique et le hamas (qui a mordu assad dans la prose) sont la principale composante de la diplomatie de damas. tu vas me dire que les jihadistes qui viennent d'australie, de suede, canada, france, USA, etcetc, sont menés par assad lui meme, qui se plait à les combattre ensuite dans son propre pays, ce meme pays qu'il a oeuvré avec son pere à construire durant 60 ans, c'est ça?
il n'ya jamais eu d'israeliens qui manifestent pour la paix. ta propagande merdique pro-israelienne donne la nausée. ben gurion et sharon eux meme se moquaient de l'ONU et annexaient du terrain qui n'etait pas à eux, à qui mieux mieux.
tu pues, machia.
Machia 13 minutes ago 01
Sorry forgot to mention that I quoted Michel Aoun
peace 6 minutes ago 00
now machia the FPM thingie will come out with a lame excuse because he insulted you for quoting aoun! LOL
only sexually frustrated fascists like the FPM monkey talk like that...
I hope your Assad is not hurting too much!
Chaos works. Chaos will create the new system that will replace Taef and even maybe confessionalism...
My point exactly. Chaos will create this natural partition.
what part of it dont u understand ?
If christians had demographics, military power and external support, would they accept not to rule Lebanon ?
Same applies to HizbIran...
watch this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRhEskDAfa4&feature=youtu.be&t=45m50s
As for a unified Lebanon or better still a unified Arab world (Nasser's dream) well it will take a lot of time.
You can unify people under a vision. Gebran Khalil Gebran said it best:
You have your Lebanon and I have mine.
You have your Lebanon with her problems,
and I have my Lebanon with her beauty.
You have your Lebanon with all her prejudices and struggles,
and I have my Lebanon with all her dreams and securities.
Your Lebanon is a political knot, a national dilemma, a place of conflict and deception. My
Lebanon, is a place of beauty and dreams of enchanting valleys and splendid mountains.
Your Lebanon is inhabited by functionaries, officers, politicians, committees, and factions.
My Lebanon is for peasants, shepherds, young boys and girls, parents and poets.
Your Lebanon is empty and fleeting,
whereas My Lebanon will endure forever.
You are talking about military power. That has been our problem since the late 1960s.
Chaos has been present since then and nothing changed. Military power is with Hezbollah today but look at Syria where the Assad regime was unchallenged until foreign powers decided otherwise. Why? because it was solely based on military power and the threat of violence. What happened the country was destroyed.
It is in the interest of all parties in Lebanon not to get to this situation and to build something based on strong foundations and partition will make everyone happy and will prevent foreign powers from interfering.
partition wont make everybody happy. Who told u hizbiran will give up beirut, jbeil, etc... ?
Please go to dahieh,south or beqaa, try to sell ur idea of mount lebanon republic and bring us back the feedback.
Pourquoi choisiraient-ils s'ils peuvent avoir le beurre et l'argent du beurre ?
Of course they won't if you put it this way. But if you tell them, you have the chance of a lifetime to have an Islamic Republic and that you will all be able to resist until the end of times and all you have to cut the secular fat that is preventing you from achieving this dream. So let's leave them their insignificant sinful mountain and find our paradise.
A lot of the supporters of this Islamic utopia will go up to their roofs and fill the skies with bullets and RPGs.
Machia. You are a forward thinker, positive and a pragmatic.
You won't get positive responses from this forum because most lebanese are defensive and negative.
I am with your vision.
does he not have the balls to do it and lose or did baba naslala forbid him to do so ?
I really wish that Aoun and hariri team up. I want to see what this will bring...kinda like a jack in a box.
Imagine jumblatt having the presidency? President Helou would at least feel close to home at Beit Edin in summer.
Lebanon is way to small to divide up and that a little fantasy you have of secular and "non secular" Lebanon is way over your head that there's way more problems that will arise.